[colug-432] Great moments in computer science

[tom]

On 06/02/2015 05:40 PM, Rick Hornsby wrote:
>
>> On Jun 2, 2015, at 14:38, R P Herrold <herrold at owlriver.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> http://www.safetyresearch.net/blog/articles/toyota-unintended-acceleration-and-big-bowl-%E2%80%9Cspaghetti%E2%80%9D-code
>>
>> Toyota had more than 10,000 global variables.
>>
>> “And in practice, five, ten, okay, fine. 10,000, no, we're done. It is
>> not safe, and I don't need to see all 10,000 global variables to know
>> that that is a problem,” Koopman testified.
> ... that's ... insane.
>
> My 2005 Saturn has an electronic throttle similar to the Toyota.  This article makes me want to go out and find a nice, carburetor engine powered car.  Won't help though because someone else's spaghetti code car could just as likely run into me.
>
> Here's the thing though - IMHO this should bring self-driving cars grinding to a halt until we come up with standards for open, testable, audit-able vehicle control software.  The lengths described in the article to which Toyota went to both hide their negligence and lie to investigators should be a cautionary warning to insurance companies and insurance regulatory bodies.  I don't care if it is your "intellectual property".  Hiding behind the DMCA - which I've seen several stories of car cos do - is unacceptable.
>
> Boeing, Airbus, and other aircraft manufacturers cooperate with the NTSB to figure out why a plane came down. They participate in the investigation lending their knowledge as experts on the aircraft itself. As far as I know, they're not in the habit of obstructing and lying to the NTSB.  Why? I've never really wondered about that - maybe it's because the FAA would hand their butts to them in a variety of creative ways from ADs, to grounding whole fleets, to revoking operating certificates, etc.  I like to think that Boeing and Airbus want to know what went wrong so it doesn't happen again.
>
> I'm for self driving cars. Fewer idiots in control of 4000lbs of steel barreling down the road at 75mph w/ one hand on their phone and the other a cigarette sounds promising.  I'm not for more government regulations.  The market should decide -- until the market lies, deceives, and creates products so poorly designed they are all but assured of killing someone while hiding behind IP laws to mask their treachery.  If the article remotely reflects the truth, Toyota got off easy.  They would never get away with making airbags out of Swiss cheese because it is a physical product for which they have a much harder time obfuscating, hiding, or lying. "Your airbag is made of Swiss cheese. / Nuh-uh / I tasted it. Swiss cheese."
>
> Before we let self-driving cars loose on our roads we should ensure that vehicle makers are held to the standards of cooperation given by Boeing, Airbus, Cirrus, etc. Otherwise we're blindly trusting these companies with cars completely controlled by sh*t for code.
>
> -rj
>
>
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Insurance companies say insurance will not be cheaper for self drivers. 
Maybe more expensive. They see less fender benders, but are afraid that 
there will be catastrophic accidents to deal with. Are people more 
stupid? Nothing new about throttles sticking. Ever driven an old Ford? 
You turn off the ignition, Put it in neutral, Put it in low gear, etc. 
Maybe there should be a kill switch on the dashboard like motorcycles have.

Tom

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